Which Camera?

Discuss any of the full size solid state XDCAM camcorders here.
Finbo
Posts: 39
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 12:07 pm

Which Camera?

Post by Finbo » May 13th, 2012, 12:25 pm

I currently shoot in SD on DVCam for my Eng clients, but most of them are gradually moving to HD.

I'm not sure which camera is going to be best suited for my needs. There's a lot of talk that a Sony PMW 500 is the one to get. But it's very expensive for the body only and then I'll need a HD lens, viewfinder, top mic, etc on top of this.

Most News seems to be broadcast at 35mbps, so I'm thinking a PMW 350 would suit my budget better as the K package includes a standard lens. And if I need to shoot at 50mbps, then I could either hire in or buy a Nano Flash or similar.

But then another colleague has suggested buying a second hand XDCam disc camera body and then adding a Nano Flash or similar. To be honest, I don't know much about these cameras and there seems to be a number of models, etc.

My question is does anyone know which of these camera bodies is suited to this and which bolt on device would be most suited. In an ideal world having my rushes recorded on a SD card would probably suit best as they would need to be ingested onto different NLE systems out in the field and back at the studio.

Ideally anyone who has a greater knowledge of how this can or cannot work in the real world of news would be greatly appreciated. As to the bolt on recording device, the more compact the better because if there are bits sticking out too much I can see they're going to be knocked about.

Then I can start to cost up the difference between a PMW 350 and this alternative route.
Finbo
Posts: 39
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 12:07 pm

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Finbo » May 14th, 2012, 4:50 pm

I should have also asked what's generally considered the better camera a PMW 350 or an older XDCam disc camera?
Also, is the far greater outlay of a PMW 500 worth it compared to the 350??
Many thanks.
Robin
Posts: 79
Joined: April 26th, 2012, 9:25 am

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Robin » May 15th, 2012, 1:37 pm

Hi Finbo

I have just ordered a PMW500.. for the following reason..
1 A big one is if you shoot for broadcast or want to you will need 50 Mbps.. this is there minimum bit rate ..it can be argued till the cows come home as to why.. but as of now and I would think for a few years hence.. if you get a call and say you only have a PMW350.. they will say no.. nano flash yes.. (I have one too) but if your running around in the rain etc.. to my mind I want an all in one camera.. and the fewer cables and just things to go wrong the better.
2 the 700/800 are great camera,s.. but more exp than the 500.. the prod co must also have or hire a deck to play it.. and buy the disc,s.. and to my thinking a no moving parts ,solid state camera is the way to go.. (but you have down loads of course .. can be a pain.. but getting faster all the time). A good second hand 700/800 would be a much better camera than a 350..
3 I know there is a new disc camera.. but only interlaced.. but I still have a feeling SXS cards are going to be around longer than the disc,s.. for camera recording anyway..

All depends on your market or what you want to be shooting in the near future..if you can afford it the 500 would be best.. or a good deal on a good condition 700/800.. always scary to lay out the cash.. esp when your young.. but in my experience it will always make its money back and more for you.. unless you are buying right at the end of a format.. which doesn't seem to be the case for SXS or Blu ray.. personally I just wanted a no moving parts camera.. even if that means down loading..
Finbo
Posts: 39
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 12:07 pm

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Finbo » May 15th, 2012, 6:49 pm

Thanks for that Robin. My main concern is the huge price difference between a 350 & 500 when you add on a HD lens, viewfinder, etc.
I work in news and one major organisation says it'll broadcast news at 35 mbps, but programmes must be at 50 mbps. The other terrestrial organisation hasn't made the decision when it's going to move to HD and what rate it'll be broadcast at, etc.
I know what you mean by all bases being covered by one camera and no cables or bolt ons, but at more than double the price with all the bits included, I can't help thinking a nano flash or similar is a great alternative to up output to 50 mbps if you need it??
It's a shame Sony don't sell a K pkg on the 500 as well as the 350.
Robin
Posts: 79
Joined: April 26th, 2012, 9:25 am

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Robin » May 16th, 2012, 3:06 am

Yes see what you mean.. if you need the lens too.. I already have one from my HDX900, that will double the price nearly.. I have a nano flash and never had a problem with it.. cables did get caught in a tree branch once but I got out of it un scathed .. !! helps if you have a camera cover.. you can tuck the cables into it. I found.
Finbo
Posts: 39
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 12:07 pm

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Finbo » May 16th, 2012, 3:51 pm

What nano flash have you got and how do you find it? How do bolt it on to a shoulder mount camera? Most of the photos I've seen are on a shoe mount for a smaller camera.
It's interesting when you research the 350 & 500. Some reviews I've read say you can't tell the difference between the output of the two and the 500 is overpriced in comparison?? I've also read reorts that unless you're really picky a good quality SD wide angle lens will work just as well with an HD camera?
I know BBC News in the regions are using J11's for example with their 500's. They were due to get 350's but the tsunami caused stock problems, so Sony upgraded the order.
For a freelancer all this conflicting information only causes more confusion!!!
Robin
Posts: 79
Joined: April 26th, 2012, 9:25 am

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Robin » May 17th, 2012, 1:42 am

I believe there is only one type of nano flash .. they make a recorder called Gemini too.. the nano flash has also just recently had a massive price reduction ! I mount it on the front screw on the camera handle.. ( one problem is I can't also mount a light there,but I could also mount the nano on the rear screw of the camera handle.. but never have so far).It works well.. never had a problem with it...
I think the difference between 422 HD and 402 HD is seen mostly in post production when grading and for sure with green screen.. so for news yes maybe it doesn't matter much.. maybe some physcology at work too.people with 350,s will never say that the image is not as good as a 500 :). Re the lens .. yes years back I had the same temptation to go with my very good SD lenses rather than pay a fortune for a HD one..
I did in the end for 2 reasons.. 1..I did hear from some respected tech guys in the UK that there actually was a difference in quality.. be it small or not.. and 2.. as i was charging a HD rate it would be embarasing or worse to have a dir to find out the lens was not HD.. in the early days a lot of people were shooting with HD camera,s and SD lenses.. and Im sure that quite a few dir,s actually checked.. or would even ask me what lens was on the camera.. where as they never used to..!!!
The beauty of the 500 is that if you need 50 mbps then you would have it.. for me i need it for almost every shoot..if I bought the 350 it would be just gathering dust.. so although cheaper not a good buy..if you know for sure you will hardly ever need 50 mbps .. then the 350 with a nano flash .. or similar .. would be more cost effective.. ultimately you have to be the one to decide of course. the old rule has always been.. buy the camera your asked for.. not the camera you want..
alisterchapman
Site Admin
Posts: 431
Joined: February 1st, 2011, 7:43 pm

Re: Which Camera?

Post by alisterchapman » May 17th, 2012, 11:23 pm

The 500 is a fantastic camera, of that there is little doubt. But the 350 with a NanoFlash performs almost as well. There is also the new PDW-680 which is an optical Disc camera like the PDW-700 but using the 350's sensor block and recording interlace only. In some respects the 350 with a NanoFlash offers greater flexibility as you can increase the bit rate beyond 50Mb/s if you need to. At 100Mb/s the footage is quite a bit cleaner than at 50. SD lenses tend to have lower contrast then HD lenses, but unless your doing like for like, shot for shot comparisons your going to struggle to see the difference a lot of the time (assuming you have a good SD lens). The 350K package is amazing value for the money compared to a 500, but the kit lens is not as robust or as nice to use as a proper HD servo zoom. What you have to ask yourself is how quickly will the camera pay for itself? Be realistic, if you can make a 500 pay for itself in 18 months or less then it's probably a good bet, otherwise save your money. Cameras need to pay for themselves much quicker these day than in the past.
Finbo
Posts: 39
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 12:07 pm

Re: Which Camera?

Post by Finbo » May 17th, 2012, 11:38 pm

Thanks for your thoughts as well Alister.
In your opinion what's the best bolt on recorder and do they all tend to record to compact flash or do some record to SD card?
My other question after your comments about the 350 package lens, is what's a good Eng HD lens to consider?
My other option if I decide on a 500 is to try to buy one that's a year old, for example.
MartynS
Posts: 16
Joined: November 27th, 2011, 7:13 pm
Location: Northwest

Re: Which Camera?

Post by MartynS » May 19th, 2012, 5:17 pm

I think I'm kind of repeating what Alister has said but..

If most of your work is news at 35mbs I'd buy a 500 and viewfinder (the colour one is cheapest and to be honest I really like it) and use all your existing bits and pieces

We have a freelancer where I work using quite an old canon wide angle on his 500 and its fine. However being able to do 50mbs in one package I think is useful.

SxS cards (or as we do, sd cards in caddys) are not going away anytime soon. At our place we can't handle optical disks, I don't know anyone using them.
just buy the bits when you can!!
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