Note: There is something up with the frame grabs. For some reason they are very dark. I’ll look into this in the morning and get some more accurate grabs online.
First of all let me say thanks to Ben Allan on CML list for getting me thinking about this. He has already started experimenting with creating a log style Picture Profile for the EX1. All the setting you’ll find here are my own work and based on tests done with real scenes and some dodgy home made latitude test charts 😉
Ben’s musings on CML made me consider what S-Log is. In essence it is nothing more than a clever gamma curve that allows you to capture a greater dynamic range than is normally possible with conventional gamma curves. The reason why the standard gamma dynamic range is normally constrained is in part simply because if you record too large a dynamic range and then show it on a conventional monitor or TV, it simply does not look right. So to make it look right it must be graded in post production. In order to do a significant grade in post, the quality of the recording has to be good enough to withstand a fair bit of pulling and pushing. As a result 10 bit recording is recommended (however it is still possible to work with lot with top quality low noise 8 bit recordings, not that I would recommend this). Anyway as both the standard PMW-F3 and EX1/EX3 have 10 bit outputs I decided to see if it was possible to come up with a picture profile that would mimic a Log curve and then see if it actually brings any real world advantage.
First up I experimented with the F3. I already have the S-Log option, so this gave me a benchmark to work against. To mimic S-Log you need to increase the gamma gain at the lower end of the curve, you can do this with the Black Gamma function. I know that with S-Log the cameras native ISO is 800 as this is the sensitivity at which maximum dynamic range can be realised with the F3’s sensor. So I started my experiments at 800iso. I could bring up the shadow detail with the Black Gamma but I notice that I appeared to be trading off some highlight handling for shadow information, so while the images kind of looked like S-Log, they did not really gain any latitude.
During this process I realised that my mid range sensitivity was now a lot higher than with genuine S-Log, so I decreased the camera gain so I was now at 400iso and started tweaking again. Now with Black Gamma all the way up at +99 I was seeing around 1 stop further into the shadows, with no impact on highlight handling.
When I tested my new Picture Profile on a real scene, exposing as you would S-Log with mid grey at 38% I was very pleased to find some very similar images that do grade quite well. As well as the Gamma tweaks I also incorporated a few other changes into the profile to increase the overall grade-ability.
There is a definite improvement in shadow reproduction. It’s not as good as real S-Log, but it does give a very useful improvement for those without S-Log. One interesting point is that the exposure between the two log frame grabs posted here is not changed, so even though the camera is set at 400iso, when the picture profile is applied the camera behaves more like an 800iso camera and exposure should be set accordingly. I think my PP (which you can download at the bottom of the page) brings a little under a one stop improvement in DR, real S-Log is about 2 stops.
If you click on the image captures you can view them full frame. When you compare the AC-Log and Cinegamma 4 images you should be able to see more shadow detail in the tree on the right of frame with the AC-Log yet the sky is further from clipping as well.
So what about the EX1 and EX3, can the same be done for them? Well this is much more of a challenge as the EX cameras are much noisier. Simply bringing up the Black Gamma does help you see into the shadows a bit better but it comes at the cost of a lot of extra noise and really makes it un gradable. Normally I don’t recommend using negative gain as it can reduce the dynamic range of the camera. But I figured if I use negative gain and then increase the gamma gain that should cancel out any dynamic range loss. To then avoid the usual -3db reduction in highlight performance I adjusted the overall gamma gain to return the peak output level to 109IRE. After a bit of fiddling around with my test charts and waveform monitors I could see that it was possible to gain a small amount of dynamic range, a little under 1 stop, however there is an overall increase in the noise level of about +4db. Now that doesn’t sound too terrible, but to gain the extra stop of DR you have to under expose compared to standard gamma’s, typically with S-Log you would put mid grey at 38% (use the centre spot meter on the EX1/EX3 and a grey card). This works reasonable well with this fake log picture profile. The problem however is that when grading you may find that you have to add still further gain to bring skin tones to a normal level and this will accentuate the noise. You could use something like the Neat Video plugging to reduce the noise and in this case I think this sudo Log picture profile could be handy in tricky lighting situations. The EX1R Log picture profile, to work correctly MUST be used in conjunction with -3db gain, any other gain setting and you will loose dynamic range. Again like real S-Log, 10 bit external recording is desirable, but why not play with the picture profile and try it for yourself. It is a bit experimental, I’m not convinced that the extra stop of DR is worth the noise penalty on the EX1R, but then I’m spoilt as I have an S-Log F3.
I have uploaded both the F3 and EX1R picture profiles into a single zip file that you can download below. You will need to have an account on xdcam-user.com to download them, or register for a new account first. Un-zip the package and copy the SONY folder to the root of an SxS card, so you should have both a BPAV folder and a SONY folder in the root directory. The cameras will need the latest firmware versions to load the single profile directly. In the Picture Profile menu choose an empty PP and then in the bottom PP menu chose “load”.
[downloads_box title=”F3 and EX1R Log Picture Profiles”]
F3 and EX1R Log like profiles
[/downloads_box]
Hey great post Alister!
Will the ex1r profile work if i load it into my pmw 350?
It won’t load into a 350. The different noise characteristics of the 350 would require a different profile. You could experiment with the following on a 350:
Detail: OFF
Aperture: OFF
Matrix: Cinema, Matrix Level +10
Gamma Type: HG
Gamma: HG4
Black gamma: ON
Black Gamma Range: Hi
Black Gamma: +85
Master Black Level: -1
These settings are a best guess based on past experience with the PMW-350, so may or may not work, but if you expose mid grey at around 40% or about one stop under where you normally would, you will gain an extra stop of overexposure, while the black stretch should help you retain enough shadow information for a sensible post grade image.
what good are these results of the image is there is no comparison from an 8-bit image side by side with 10-bit.
It precludes the trained eye from discerning anything more than people geeking-out over what is technically possible rather what is visually possible…
It’s not people geeking out, it’s people striving to achieve the best image quality they can. If that doesn’t fit with your style then move along…….
This isn’t about 8 bit v 10 bit anyway, its about maximising dynamic range, which has nothing to do with bit depth.
I didn´t get that profile to work with my EX3. Without a setup file it won´t load. With my setup file of my pps it will load my files but not the S-Log pp. Can you help me?
You can find a text version of the profile here. You’ll need to be a registered user to view it, but registration is free. https://www.xdcam-user.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=194&sid=c233ea884673388efe1e1af8c2ef84c7
I seem too be loosing a massive amount of details and can’t seem to get the saturation and blacks back up without the image falling apart does anyone have any tips for this/ footage I can see? In the tests I have shot the lack of detail in the face does look quite pleasing and does the makeup artist a few favours but even at 10bit I have yet too get an image out of this which feels remotely natural I have tried both FCPX and DaVinci Resolve but no joy… would love too see some before and after grade footage
Are you exposing correctly? Most issues with Log are down to overexposing. Middle grey should be 38% and white 68%. That means that faces etc will typically be 1.5 stops lower than you would have with a conventional gamma. If using resolve make sure you enable log mode. With FCPX you will need to de-log the footage before grading.
Hi – Never updated my EX1 firmware, so I’m trying to register with your site for the manual settings for the log like profile. The registration link doesn’t seem to be working. Is there another way to get access?
This log-like setting is pretty exciting! Does this make the dynamic range of the 10bit HDSDI out of the EX! 11 stops?
Thanks!
Registrations should be back online now.
Thanks Alister! Niiiiiice!!!
Hi,
Bought a 2nd hand Ex1r last year and I’m loving it. For me personally the 4K (moneywise) 2nd hand lo-end procameras are the best i can hope for but with the help of pages like this one and the help of a company that appreciates my enthousiasm i’m getting somewhere. My intrest in grading (and thus LUT’s) has been peaked. I’m hoping to by a recorder for the SDI output of the EX1 this year and improve what i do. Sooo now that i’ve found the log settings offered here; some questions. The PP settings are one thing. theres still things like the shockless white settings and i’ve figured that the camera has more difficulty using the peaking function because everything has been flattend out more. Right now i’m having to trust the bar in the LCD which tells me ho deep and far my DOF is. Would it be possible to tweak some other setting to bring back some more contrast, resolution etc? I can tweak: TLCS to keep the IRIS on 4 and i can up the detail for more crispness. Also i can do a lot more in the Matrix for colour balance and lowering the blacks will reduce noise.
Or will all of that ruin the Grade-ability of the shot?
Changing detail etc and bringing the contrast back will make the footage less gradeable. Why are you using TLCS, you really want to expose manually to get the best results. You can increase the peaking level to help with focus.
Hi Alister,
Thank you for your work and this article. I wish you had done the same for the PMW-200. But the time span for the PMW-200 was quite short (much shorter than for EX1/EX1R) [->I am not accusing you for this]
Do you have all the slog settings for EX1R written down in text so I could dial in and start from this point for my PMW-200?
I do have a PMW-200 with an ATOMOS Samurai (both bought after your positive feedbacks) and as long as I shoot with this combo I’d like to squeeze the maximum out of it.
Thanks in advance.
Alex
You simply cannot get S-Log type performance out of a PMW-200. The sensors are only capable of capturing a range of approx 11 stops. The closest you can get to log with the PMW-200 is to use one of the hypergammas. Hypergamma 4 will give the full range of the sensor and if exposed correctly (middle grey at 33% and white at approx 75%) will give a greatly extended highlight range.
You are right. S-Log was the wrong term. Wanted to say “log”.
At the moment I use HG4 with middle grey at 33%. (important note you should always mention: Sonys default for white clip is 105% and not 109%)
But I understood it that way that you did get a log type look out of the EX1R looking similar to the F3 log – so it should be also possible with the PMW-200 (especially since the PMW-200 has less noise than the EX1R).
I recently dumped Premiere Pro CS6 and started with DavinciResolve. Great tool, easy to use – but hard to master 🙂
Now I’d like to get a little more dynamic range out of my PMW-200 since when I expose to white at 75% I always loose a lot in the shadows (most times I can’t control the light).
Well, I am dreaming of a FS7 giving me 14 stops (and for shure I will buy it) but for now I stick with my reliable workhorse PMW-200…
Alex
PS: As I already said: I appreciate all your work and info. Thank you.
Yes, I did create a log type look for the EX1, but it was just that a “look” it did not really extend the dynamic range. You can use the black gamma setting to raise the shadows and blacks for a flat log type look, but you will not gain any dynamic range. It’s possible to make the image appear log like but there is little real world benefit to doing this, all you are doing is reducing the contrast, raising the noise floor and squeezing the same dynamic range into a smaller recording range. You are not gaining dynamic range and will be reducing the amount of code values in your shadows and mid range. Compared to an FS7 the PMW-200 shadows are very noisy and grainy so you will never pull anything like the detail and information that can be pulled from the FS7’s shadows.
I see. Nevertheless thanks for your fast and detailed answer in a thread that is more than 4 years old 🙂
Alex