Why I Choose To Shoot ProRes Raw with the FS5

This is a much discussed topic right now, so as I promised in my last article about this, I have put together a video. Unfortunately YouTube’s compression masks many of the differences between the UHD XAVC and the ProRes Raw, but you can still see them, especially on the waveform scopes.

To really appreciate the difference you should watch the video on a large screen at at high quality, preferably 4K.

17 thoughts on “Why I Choose To Shoot ProRes Raw with the FS5”

    1. Who knows! Maybe never, maybe only ever on a Mac.

      Apple spent a lot of money developing it (in conjunction with Atomos I believe). So they are going to want to get their money back. Whether that’s by restricting it to only FCP or to only the Mac platform who knows. I doubt that Adobe Premiere, a direct head to head competitor to FCP would be their first choice of software to get the ability to use it.

      My best guess would be that we will see it in DaVinci Resolve on the Mac platform before we see it anywhere else.

  1. Wow! so much more detail in your skin tone and better colour!
    I just wish Atomos would enable Prores raw in my Shogun Flame without me having to buy the Inferno

    Thanks for your great tutorials Alister

  2. Higher bit depth = Higher IQ seems to be the short version of this clip. A more interesting comparison may be a 10 bit XAVC-S recording vs. ProRes raw. That way we may be able to get a sense of what image loss is due to the codec’s compression. What do you think Alister?

    Is S-log only recorded to video range, not data range? Does the container matter (.mp4 specifically)? I know you mention 235 steps in the video.

    1. S-Log is recorded using data range, but black is put at approx 10 bit CV92 – 8 bit CV23 to retain compatibility with other film log curves. S-log2 goes up to the equivalent 104 IRE . S-Log2 has only approx 225 code values and S-Log3 a measly approx 195 code values. However both curves with the right camera could reach 109% or CV1024/255.

  3. Thanks for sharing I’d like to ask “how to expose Prores RAW”?
    is it the same as doing it in RAW? which Picture profile to use to record, S-Log2?

    1. ProResRaw is still just the very same raw output form the camera so everything is exactly the sam as for any other Sony FS-Raw. The camera is designed to perform as expected when using PP7 and S-Log2.

  4. Thanks Alister for all theses good informations about shooting RAW with the FS5 (your webinar is really interesting about how to over-expose SLOG and deal with ProRes RAW in FCPX).
    I did my first RAW shooting with FS5 (and Tamron 28-75) in RAW PP9 + Shogun in ProRes RAW (not HQ) and I’m encountering so much moiré that even with gaussian blur it is nearly impossible to remove.
    What could I’ve missed ?
    Thanks in advance if you have any suggestion.

    1. Is the moire problem with 2K slow motion footage perhaps? When shooting at high speed and 2K the cameras optical low pass filter is ineffective as it is designed for 4K, so moire and aliasing is inevitable on fine textures or high contrast edges unless you defocus the image a fraction when shooting. Shallow DoF can be a big help. Unfortunately moire and aliasing is almost impossible to remove unless you can alter the actual debayer process, and even then to eliminate it entirely would result in an extremely soft image. It needs to be dealt with at the optical stage.

  5. Thanks Alister.
    Not 2K, 4K shooting at 25p. Couldn’t use Shallow DoF as it was a green screen shooting and I wanted sharp edges.

    Finally I end up reducing the contrast of my grading, applying FCPX noise reduction filter (which I never use because it distored the image but here it’s what I wanted). I get better results that way than in After Effect with gaussian blur, tracking and masking. Of course the jacket which had moiré on, is now looking badly compressed and soft but that’s the best compromise.

    I’m just surprised that not so many people complain about FS5 moiré in RAW. I have to do more tests, with different optics, and with different fabric mesh on clothes.
    But is there anything that I may have done that reinforce the moiré ?

    1. OK, thats interesting. The sensor on the FS5 is a bayer sensor so even in 4K it will never be 100% moire free, especially with coloured patterns. When processed internally I expect Sony employ processes to minimise any moire, but even so I have seen moire in the 4K XAVC on a few occasions. Mainly finely patterned fabrics such as a suit jacket with a fine weave. It is possibly because Apple don’t have these same anti-moire strategies that you are maybe seeing more moire than with the XAVC recordings, but I would suspect it would still be present but at a reduced level in the XAVC too. I’m not seeing lot’s of reports of moire in the ProRes Raw, but it does get mentioned every now and again.

      1. I should have done another recording of the same scene in internal 4K XAVC 8 bits to compare. I’ll do next time with some more testing.
        Thank you for your insights.

  6. Hey do you have any idea why there is so much green tint In the shadow of the prores raw compared to the internal. It seems to always add a ton of green cast to the shadows. Is there a fix?

      1. The colour science on the FS5 tends to result in a bit of a green bias to shadow areas and this is especially noticeable if it is under exposed or the shadows are pulled up in post. I think part of the issue is a poor conversion of the raw colourspace in FCP/Premier. If you expose bright and bring the levels down in post it will be less noticeable. Sadly though the bigger issue is that ProRes Raw only really works in edit applications like FCP or Premiere and the grading tools aren’t great. This green bias is far easier to remove when you use proper grading software such as Resolve.

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